- What do you think were Serena Joy’s reasons for allowing Offred to have sex with Nick?
- Why do you think the Commander is going on “dates” with Offred behind Serena Joy’s back? Was it a surprise to you when we found out that’s what happened to the previous Offred?
- If that black van was really the rebels, do you think Offglen’s death was for nothing? Should she have known?
- What do you think happened to Offred? Do you think Nick was really a spy the whole time?
- How did you feel about the historical notes? Were they helpful to you? Did they add or take away from the book as a whole?
– I’d like to think that Serena Joy wants Offred pregnant so that her relationship with the Commander would no longer be needed. At the very base of it, Serena Joy is still a married woman in this society, and even before it. To me, she loves her husband and having women come in and out of their home to have sex with him causes her pain. To the Handmaids and the rest of the society, it’s considered “fucking” or “reproduction”, but I think that to the wives, it’s still considered “making love”. She has to sit there watching her husband make love to someone else, and ultimately have his children. That has to be a lot to swallow for anyone. So she does what she can to get this woman out of her house and away from her husband.
– I think the Commander just likes women. I think his wife’s bitterness at their situation makes their relationship impossible. Therefore, he has to find companionship any way he can, and Offred just so happens to be the only one there.
– I’d like to think that Offred was saved and she was able to reunite with Luke and her daughter. But there’s no concrete way of knowing (which is somewhat infuriating). Ofglen pointed out at the beginning that the rebellion was so secretive that no one knew who was really part of it. She could have thought that the van was really coming to kill her and she preferred to take control over her death rather than having this society do it as well.
– I think the historical notes helped to explain why the story was written the way it was and why the scenes didn’t seem to make too much sense chronologically. However, I think it was meant as a sort of “closure” device for the reader, but I didn’t take to it too much.
-I think Serena Joy wanted Offred to get pregnant. I think it was less of Serena Joy wanting a baby and more of her wanting to not need a Handmaid anymore. It seemed that once there was a baby in the family, a Handmaid wasn’t necessary, and I think Serena Joy was tired of having to watch her husband with the various Handmaids that were cycled through the house.
-I think it’s obvious that the Commander isn’t happy in his marriage, and I think, like Hecate, that he just likes women. It wasn’t a surprise that this had been going on with the previous Offred.
-I don’t think the black van was the rebels, I feel that Ofglen would have known if they were.
-I like to think that Offred was smuggled across the boarder and out of the country. It would be nice to think that she was reunited with Luke and/or her daughter, although I’m still fairly certain Luke was killed. I don’t know about her daughter. Possibly the two of them were reunited, but that seems like it would be hard if not impossible given that her daughter would have been assigned to another family.
-I liked the historical notes, it gave (for me anyway) a little bit more clarity in regards to Gilead. It also sort of drove home the point of the book, and the warning that this could potentially happen. I do agree with Hecate however that it didn’t really work as a form of “closure.”
-Although I see your point with Serena Joy, don’t you think that if the Commander was able to have a baby, they would’ve been cycled through more? I mean even when one Handmaid gets pregnant they will always put a new one in just to improve the population. And if the Commander proves that he’s sterile, I think it’ll be more likely that he’ll have more Handmaids.
– I’m not too sure about the Ofglen knowing bit. I think the rebels had to keep as undetected as possible. I mean, the more people that know, the more likely that they would’ve been betrayed. The rebels don’t know who to trust or who believes them. I think that it was just so dangerous that not a lot of people would know about their whereabouts or their intentions. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the black van wasn’t sent there to kill her. I think it’s just so difficult to tell who to trust; and I think that was the point of the whole book. You never really know who to trust or who to believe.
-I thought they stopped getting Handmaids once they had a kid? Maybe I misinterpreted that bit.
-I agree with you on the second bit though. The book very much is about trying to figure out who you can trust and ultimately feeling that you can’t tell who you can trust. I guess too, I was thinking that Ofglen might have known had she had someone like Nick, but she wouldn’t necessarily have had anyone like Nick at her house, so it’s possible that they could have saved her and she killed herself without knowing either way. On the other hand, I’m not positive that I believe Nick was part of the underground system. He could have been lying to Offred. It’s left so open, it’s hard to tell.
– about the Handmaid thing: maybe i misread. I’m not sure. I just assumed that once they figured that “hey! this guy can give us kids!”, they’d give him more fertile women to increase their population. That’s what I would’ve done.
That’s true. I was just thinking about when Janine gives birth, Offred says that Janine will be reassigned, but doesn’t say anything about the Commander getting a new Handmaid. But maybe they just give the family some time and then they get a new Handmaid?
Interesting point … it totally makes sense that once a man proved fertile he would get another Handmaid and try to have another child. They talked so little about the lives of the families with children, though, and we didn’t see that firsthand because Offred’s household had no child yet. I don’t recall reading about a family with more than one child but they probably existed.
-I think, like Isis & Hecate said, that Serena Joy really wanted Offred OUT of her house, but I do think that part of her wanted a baby. If we operate on the assumption that she’ll get another Handmaid, though, then that motivation doesn’t seem to make as much sense. Even if she gets a baby from Offred, she’ll just get some other Handmaid after that. Now that I think about it, though, maybe a Commander does only get 1 kid. Maybe they want to “spread the wealth” and circulate fertile Handmaids among families that don’t already have a child.
-Like I said in my previous post, I think the Commander is going on “dates” with Offred because he kind of gets off on the power trip. He’s the one giving her access to these illegal objects and taking her to Jezebel’s when he knows she should NOT be there. I think it was Moira who said that for some Commanders it’s like “screwing on the altar” to take their Handmaids to Jezebel’s. I think the Commander gets pleasure from the fact that he’s not supposed to be doing these things with Offred. I was kind of surprised at first to hear that he’d been doing the same things with the previous Offred, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. The Commander’s not doing these things because he genuinely likes Offred or wants to be with her (at least I don’t think that’s his main motivation) so therefore there’d be nothing stopping him from doing the same things with the previous Offred.
-I agree with you two that Ofglen shouldn’t necessarily have known whether or not the black van was really the rebels. We have no idea how high up she was in the rebellion chain of authority, so it’s completely reasonable that she might not have known about rebels coming to save her. In that case, if I were in her position, I’d probably have killed myself as well. Her death was not for nothing – if the black van was NOT rebels, she could have potentially given away important information about the rebellion.
-Again, like the two of you, I like to think that Offred got to be with Luke and her daughter again, but realistically I don’t think that happened. I do think that the black van was the rebels and they were able to smuggle her out of Gilead, due to the historical notes. As for Nick, I don’t think that he was a spy. Given my theory that the black van was the rebels, it wouldn’t make sense for Nick to be a spy. Why would he tell Offred about the rebels coming to save her if he was a spy? As you two mentioned, though, a lot is left open – was he a spy, but decided not to turn Offred in because he fell in love? So much ambiguity!
-I can’t really say that I enjoyed the historical notes, but I think they did shed a little bit of light on the narrative, especially on the choppy chronology of it. I was glad to see that explained, because there were several times while reading that I felt the sections didn’t exactly match up or the timeline was a bit confusing. The historical notes were also what made me think that the black van really was the rebels, because of the fact that they found Offred’s story recorded on cassette tapes outside of Gilead. How else would she have been able to set down her story unless the black van was the rebels? Overall, I think the historical notes added to the book but I had a bit of a hard time getting through them … kind of felt too academic for me!
Generally, I did like reading this book but can’t say it was one of my favorites. I’m feeling sort of neutral about it & would probably give it a rating of 2.5 out of 5 stars.
I think that Serena wanted Offred to have sex with Nick so her job would be done and she could leave, I think maybe Serena had an idea of what was going on in the Commander’s office. I think that the Commander was going on the dates with Offred because he was clinging to the old ways that were no longer allowed by having affair-like interactions with Offred, just like going to the club.
I feel that since Offglen was part of the rebels, she would have known about the black van being full of rebels, but she killed herself instead. For that reason I think that Nick was possibly a spy and the black van was not full of rebels.
I really enjoyed the book, it took me a few chapters to get used to the writing style, but after that I was totally engrossed in it and could hardly put it down. This book is definitely one of my favourites even though I didn’t like the ending 100%, I like endings that leave you hanging but I prefer to have some inking as to what happens afterward.
Supposing Ofglen knew about the black van, why do you think she would still kill herself?
The writing style does take a bit getting used to but I’m glad you liked it. I also agree with you there about endings. I like knowing what’s going to happen next or at least what could happen next. Open ended endings tend to leave me angry and wanting more.
I agree with you about the Serena/Nick/Offred situation. I’m glad you enjoyed the book, it’s one of my favorites too. I don’t mind endings that leave you hanging, so long as they work well, and I think this does, especially because it allows you as the reader to come up with your own ending for Offred (be it happy or tragic). (But maybe that’s just me!)
I think Serena wanted Offred and Nick to have sex because then she could get pregnant and leave the house. I think she knew all along about the meetings with the Commander and was bitter and angry toward Offred. So in this way she would leave the house sooner, or if Offred did anything more that Serena was unhappy with, she could report Offred to the government.
To me, the Commander is like most man in the sense that he wants to try and get away with anything he can possibly get away with. He’s a high ranking officer so he can enjoy the perks of his rank by going against so many laws to do what he wants. I wasn’t surprised to find out that the same had happened with the previous Offred.
I think Ofglen’s death was inevitable. There could have been ways for the rebel to tell her that a rescue was on the way, but in that day and age I think doing so would have been too risky for them. And like many parties/groups say; for the benefit of all, not the benefit of the one. Ofglen was just one person and from the looks of it, not all too high ranking in the rebel group. So losing her may not have been such a huge deal to them.
I’d like to think that Nick really was a spy this whole time and that Offred fled to wherever the rebels were and found her lost family. But I doubt that actually would have happened. I don’t think she would have become a large person in the rebel community just because of the type of person she is. She’s rather quiet and subservient for the most part. I don’t think being rescued from this situation would have changed that all too much.
I liked it in the sense that it makes the book even more realistic. I think the point of The Handmaid’s Tale is that this story is meant to sound realistic because it could happen. Adding the historical notes just makes it more so.
I agree with the historical notes making everything even more realistic.
But, I think probably Offred did manage to escape, simply because the historical notes make it seem that way. I don’t know that she would have been reunited with her family (I still think Luke is dead, and her daughter would be so integrated into the new regime that it would be impossible to extricate her). I don’t think she would have been huge in the rebel community, no, but I still think she was able to escape.